Thursday, September 9, 2010

Polyamory - the ugly people's sex club?!

Peter, on 08 September 2010, posted a blog about his opinions on poly people all being ugly, choosing poly because we need to keep our options open and can't find that one right partner (more likely that they're out of our league). My response follows his blog.

PETER:

I’ve been suspecting something for a long time, so I’m just going to come out and say it.

I think that all these people that are into polyamory on the internet are all overweight and or ugly people that don’t want to die alone and so they want to get involved with one person, to stop that happening while leaving their options open because they realise that they’re settling for something.

I kind of think it’s like some weird ugly people sex club.

I think the only reason to keep your options open is because you think you’re settling for something or what you’re getting into isn’t exactly right for you. I think it’s entirely possible to have all your needs met by one person and if they aren’t then you settled before you found the right one.

Saying I want to have the ability to fuck other people, is essentially, exactly the same as saying.. I’m not going to be ok just fucking you for the rest of my life.

I think all of them would pack the polyamory thing in for the right person. It’s just, if my theory is correct, the right person for them (in their mind) is sadly out of their league.

I justify all of this, by saying I’ve never actually seen an attractive person that said they’re polyamorous.

I’ve seen a couple that have never actually been in a polyamorous relationship though, that said they’d be ok with it.. but I think that would all entirely change when their partner turned around and actually started banging someone else.

I think polyamory is the open, honest version of getting into a relationship and then cheating on your partner.

I think the root causes are the same. I think it’s all down to not having your needs met on some level, but like I said, I feel if that’s the case then you should be dropping the person you’re with and getting with someone that does meet those needs and not getting into a relationship and then continuing to look for that person while having a fall back plan incase it never happens.

So there it is.

I’m ok with someone proving me wrong however. It’s just I don’t think I am.

MAKAEL:

Well, that is certainly one judgmental way to look at things, particularly for one who's never met a poly person to whom he was attracted. Your opinion is... Yours, and you're entitled to it. So if you decide that I look like a walrus, you'll use that as justification to ignore the rest of what I'm about to say? Weak sauce. You can do better than that.

You are confusing Swinging with Polyamory, among other things. Here's a link to a blog I wrote in 2007 distinguishing the two.

As a core point, however, you believe in One True Love Who Can Meets All Your Needs (and, one must assume, ALL of whose needs you can also meet), and I do not. Nothing I have to say will change your mind, nonetheless, I'll make my points. (That stuff about us all being ugly is just puerile and not worth my response.)

As a relationship coach, and a non-monogamous woman who's wedding is one week from tonight, I entirely disagree with your view that one couple can (should?) be everything to each other, and that if you haven't found THAT person, than you've settled. In my experience, it takes extraordinary courage to truly admit to your passions and desires, and create a partnership that allows your needs to be met. That is NOT settling.

And while we're on that point... Are you single or married? If married and you believe that you've found that One person - Hooray for you! I sincerely hope that your (very high) expectations continue to be met. If single... perhaps you will find that one, someday. Keep looking for 10 more years, and then let's talk. And for your reading pleasure, I offer: Love in the Western World, by Denis de Rougemont.

In case you haven't noticed, the assumption of monogamy is not working... largely, IMHO, because it is often an Assumption instead of a Choice. We are so thoroughly inundated from a young age with the idea that monogamy is THE way for sex in a marriage that most people never stop to question whether or not that actually empowers, excites and works for them!

The facts are the facts: The divorce rate was 49% per the CDC in 2008. Infidelity is rumored to run around 60% for men and 40% for women, and to be on the rise among women (given the social stigma, it's VERY difficult to gain accurate data on infidelity). We SAY monogamy, we TALK about our 'one true partner', but that's not the way we live our lives.

Swinging and Polyamory, forms of functional non-monogamy, happen with the complete knowledge, awareness, and agreement of both parties in a committed relationship. This is the opposite if Cheating, which is defined by breaking agreements (specifically the assumed agreement of monogamy), hiding, and sneaking around. That's why cheaters get CAUGHT. Swingers and polyamorists don't get Caught because we've got nothing to Hide!

In fact, being this open about your authentic desires, and facing your own fears and insecurities (like jealousy), can create an extremely strong bond between partners. It can also teach you relationship skills that benefit every area of your life, and every type of relationship you have.

AND monogamy is a completely valid choice. For some people it works. As does celibacy. I'll make my choices, you'll make yours, and we'll each have our own opinions. Viva la difference!


M. Makael Newby, 2010 - All Rights Reserved - http://mmakaelnewby.blogspot.com

12 comments:

  1. Wow, great response to an absolutely crazy opinion.

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  2. In my experience there are women who are bisexual and women who do not accept that they are bisexual, there are thousands of studies that say this too. (i am not the only one saying this) When a woman meets a guy who is worthy of trust and she is having a really good experience in bed, she will want to share the wealth. Some say is because this is the way that we lived for thousands of years, i do not know but it is true in all my experiences. There are many things that happen when you have 2 girls or more in the mix with one guy. Panties will need change several times a day even if sex is not engaged, girls look and feel so alive.

    It is very easy to judge other people, and my guess is that Peter has never been in a relationship like this... So how can you say that you like or not like chicken if you have never had chicken? In fact the very position that he brings is kind of funny because he has look on the internet.... So he is curious... He probably forgot the very owner of playboy magazine lives this reality and we all know those girls belong to the ugly people's club. I would even reach an invitation to come and meet my girls and talk to them in a public place, i am sure the whole place will agree that they belong to the same club the Playboy bunnies belong... Who am I to disagree??

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  3. Excellent, loved it..thank you for the links and congrats on your marriage.

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  4. A very good response! My thoughts exactly, also.

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  5. Communication is the key to know everything about a certain person. Beauty comes from within. Everything we see is just superficial. That is why we should always be proud of what we have, ugly or not, it brings joy to people who sees it.

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  6. What if this topic is of interest to you, not because you're judgemental, or disagree with polyamory, but because polyamory in theory suits you, but absolutely nobody in the poly community appeals?

    I am growing increasingly frustrated with the homogenous communities I find, in person and online. Very stereotyped selection of interests, almost 100% incidence of anxieties/mental ill health/dysfunctional attitudes when relating to people. And yes, unfortunately, physical unattractiveness.

    And yet, when I try to broach the concept with dates picked from the more general pool, they react extremely negatively. (Which I find odd on a first/early date - I'm a single girl, so you could surely assume I'm free to be with other people. Why should me being open/honest about it, and them meaning more to me than just sex, make me a "whore" who is "sleeping around"?)

    Anyone found any more positive experiences?

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  7. I also liked your answer to Mr. Prejudiced. However..... ahem..... the reason I found your website is because I googled "why are poly people so often unattractive". Oops. I admit. Mea culpa. Now, I am in a poly relationship - 6 years monogamous, 3 years poly. I would dare to say, at risk of sounding vain, that both my partner and I are attractive people. When we first decided to become poly, we met with incredulous, eyebrows-raised faces among the people in our community. So we decided to look around and discovered okc, which, as you most likely already know, is a great dating website open to alternative relationship choices.

    A year later.... although there are occasionally very attractive poly couples (who's dance cards are inevitable full) I almost stopped looking at the profile of poly men/couples, because they inevitably seem kind of homey-looking, often overweight (excuse my frequent slander of overweight people - I do not judge people merely on their weight, but I am also not attracted to overweight people. I don't need skinny, I like a layer of fat, but I dislike a big belly. Kinda gets in the way, and doesn't communicate a healthy relationship with one's body IMHO) and, yes, unattractive.

    So, then I attended a poly meeting in a large city, hoping to find like minded people and perhaps even a lover. I did find like-minded people, but.... I was immediately struck by the odd assortment of people in the room - overweight people (70 %), nerdy/book-keeper look-alikes (60 %); bearded guys with greasy long hair, one pale skinned fat woman with copious tattoos who looked at me as if she'd never seen anything more weird, two kinky leather biker-type couples, and the rest none too sexy either.

    Then I attended a 4 day poly camp, I was one of three people under 50; the average age was probably around mid-sixties. Almost ALL the men had beards and long (unkempt) hair. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with having a beard and long hair. I just don't like the combo, particularly on an unattractive man, particularly a boring one, a profile which the majority of the men there fit. Some of the women were also quite overweight, sporting short shirts to display their copious midriffs. Again, I know I sound like a judgmental bitch, but keep in mind that I was on the prowl for excitement and connection and a secondary partner. Many of the people were definitely very nice, and I had some good conversation, and made a great woman friend, but I went home without having experienced even the slightest flirtatious moment.

    So, is all this coincidence? Was I looking in the wrong places? My partner has had a secondary relationship for over a year now, with a woman he met on okc (lucky ducky). But even though I could have casual sex with a different guy each week judging by the amount of interest I get, there has not been one poly-able man that I find attractive (and, no, I do not have unrealistic expectations).

    So, to go slightly off topic and to present a general synopsis of my experience being poly: a lot of men seem to think

    a) that they can have a relationship with me until they find the "one" (after which they can dump me because, after all, this wasn't their 'real' relationship and I already have a partner, so will not experience heartbreak (not)or,

    b) they will begin a relationship with me because surely I'm mistaken and on the brink of a breakup with my husband and they want to have a foot in the door so to speak, or

    c) they think I'm just a happy slut and want to spend my free time fucking any John, Dick or Harry, or

    d) they think they can be poly, but then get scared by the intimacy, the risk, the need for processing, or the concept of sharing, and they eventually withdraw.

    So, we'll see how the saga continues. And, I'm still wondering: why does there seem to be a higher than average amount of quite unattractive people in the poly scene?
    ~ Sabine

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    1. Thank you Sabine and Steve for sharing your experiences, even if they only confirm the distinctly unpromising outlook I have :(

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    2. Sabine-> call me! Hah... Recently my marriage made a lot more sense after my wife identified as Asexual. Since then we've looked into poly as a possible alternative to serial monogamy as we do love each other, but she has 0 interest in sex/kissing etc... After a couple months, I'm already frustrated and worried about meeting poly women to whom I'm attracted! I've made one great friend, and enjoy the support and discussions, but it seems like I'd have so many more options if I were a single dude following the standard script! *pout*

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  8. The book "Sex At Dawn" really made me think about how in harmony marriage and LTRs are with our biological nature. I haven't made any conclusions, but my mind was opened up to thinking about these things in a new way.

    I think "Peter" was unnecessarily rude and possibly judgmental in expressing his opinions.

    Yet, I've observed the same things he has and I've met a number of poly people.

    Its "PC" to be blind (or pretend to be blind ) to the demographics of different groups of people.

    Yet, what you see is still there. There is a core of something going on with poly people or at least the ones who turn up for poly gatherings. I'm not sure those are the types of people I want to get invested with.

    I do think it is possible for poly to be about what the writers say it is about, for poly people to have great personalities, make great partners and be attractive.

    I just don't think that is the majority of what people will find with publicly poly people.

    Steve

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  9. Hey all people here. I don't believe that all poly people are ugly (and beauty certainly is in the eye of the beholder). But I do think that those poly people who are 'out; are those more likely to have challenged society norms anyway by being alternative/queer/bi/rejected in someway. Thus when you go to openly poly events you are going to find a large majority of people who challenge the society norm standard of beauty be it by believing that deodorants are bad because they distort our natural senses, or that beards are good because they trap pheremones.

    My boyfriend and I are poly, but we had the same trouble finding people to whom we were attracted being fairly mainstream and also hetero. We resorted to stuff like okcupid which I find awful. Last week I pulled together a pilot website intended to be all inclusive for non monogamy dating. Pleeease have a look at it and let's try to get all kinds of beautiful people on there (its free for the foreseeable future until we see how it works). www.multiplematch.com

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  10. Hey all people here. I don't believe that all poly people are ugly (and beauty certainly is in the eye of the beholder). But I do think that those poly people who are 'out; are those more likely to have challenged society norms anyway by being alternative/queer/bi/rejected in someway. Thus when you go to openly poly events you are going to find a large majority of people who challenge the society norm standard of beauty be it by believing that deodorants are bad because they distort our natural senses, or that beards are good because they trap pheremones.

    My boyfriend and I are poly, but we had the same trouble finding people to whom we were attracted being fairly mainstream and also hetero. We resorted to stuff like okcupid which I find awful. Last week I pulled together a pilot website intended to be all inclusive for non monogamy dating. Pleeease have a look at it and let's try to get all kinds of beautiful people on there (it's free for the foreseeable future until we see how it works). www.multiplematch.com - enjoy!

    ReplyDelete